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 Why you should not buy those machines

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Posts : 10
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Montpellier / France

Why you should not buy those machines Empty
PostSubject: Why you should not buy those machines   Why you should not buy those machines Icon_minitimeThu Dec 22, 2011 1:36 am

I've bought one (9060), and i'm an unsatisfied customer. I've also help 2 friends who bought 6545, who are also unsatisfied.

1/ Shipping is a disaster
Items are shipped within wood boxing (5mm wood...) , done poorly and the boxes arrives exploded. The usability of the unpacked machine depends of damages. There is alway damages.

The seller should pack with 10 to 20mm boxe, carefully secured, and "DHL Proof".

2/ No manuals, or poor ones.
In any country, a well done product manual should be SHIPPED with the machine, with the CORRESPONDING manual. The manual should also be COMPLETE with all the configurations, and technical informations to REPLACE PARTS in case of disaster.

Here, the users manual not shipped with the machine. It is downloadable, but is very incomplete. There are many configurations inside, and the more often not yours....

There's no technical manual. For example BORCH controler contains VFD controler who needs to be programmed. Ok, this is done on the factory, but if you've got yo replace controler, there's no informations about the factory programming. Schematics drawing of controllers sould be shipped, allowing maintenance and understanding.
There's no way to have real caracteristics of machine components (motors, etc.), and you've got to experiment to find the speed needed.
A wiring diagram will be welcome.
A listing of replacement part with reference, would ne also welcome (form replacing bearings, nuts, etc.).

All datasheets should be shipped for :
* VFD Controller
* Stepper controller
* Spindle itseld.
* Steppers

3/ Machine NEVER WORKS when unpacked
The machine should be TESTED by the manufacturer BEFORE shipping and whould works fine.

From my experience (3 machines, now), CNC NEVER works when unpacked. Cabling problem (disconnected wires), cable routing problem inducting noise problems (ESTOP), really bad stepper control (9060), mechanical problems, etc..... There are many things to fix before using it. I personnaly worked 1 month on it before i could start machining.

4/ Seller is unreachable and don't communicate with it"s customers.
Internet is real time. Internet is Worldwide. Seller should be reachable, with many different maners :
* Phone
* Mail
* MSN/Skype
Seller should say when it's possible to reach him (working hours) and the way to do it.

Seller should clearly identify the delay before answering, and should answer to all the questions. Seller sould assume the responsibility of his job. He take the money, he takes the responsibility.

Here, seller only answer when he wants (sometimes month after), and never answer to all the questions at a time. Sometime it takes weeks to have a complete answer to a mail with 5 questions. In fact, I think he don"t really care about his business.

Maybe, he don't understand one of the most important business rules : A satisfied customer can 'sell' much more, recommanding the machine to friends, or ordering again complementary stuff to the same seller.

Additionnally, i've personnally tested the "Paypal litigation". The the seller starts to answer to mail, and stops just after litigation end...

5/ Sells of incompatable items
USB Board is uncompatable with CNCDIY machines. If you buy on machine with VFD, with shipped config and documents (10 HZ PWM) there's NO WAY to drive it directly with CNC board, because supported PWM is 750 min. Was it completely tested????

6/ MACH3 and EMC2 confuguration should be shipped with the machine
A CD containing manual should include configuration files for well known softwares.

7/ Machine should be debugged or improved before being selled.
Some machines are shipped with problems avoiding normal use.
Example :
* VFD part of Borch 9060 controller don't work after 1 hour : The poort design of boxing and lack of fan on VFD make the controller goes on "security mode" because overheat.
* Noise affect ESTOP. The machine stops itself when starting VFD (Borch 90ยง0, Walter6545)
* No inputs available on the controler : there's no way to connect limit switch, or probe because there's no external inputs on controler. Sometimes, inputs are existing inside, but a connector needs to be soldered and boxing needs to be modified to add an external output.
* No way to program VFD controller (Walter6545). The small control panel (with 7 segments Led display) is not shipped with the machine, so there's absolutely no way to program VFD controler. And external controler would be more usable.
* No optical isolation on brakout board (6545, 9060). There's only TTL buffers. In case of big electric problem, the PC could be destroyed.
* No grounding of VFD (6545). The spindle is only powered with 3 wires, and ground is not cabled. What about safety rules????? Sometimes, the 4th pin (ground) is not connected on the spindle itself.... So event if you connect it from VFD controller to pindle, it does not helps..
* Missing parts : My 9060 wahs shipped
Without the bottom ball bearing on Z axis!!!!
Without the demo tools

This post will be probably completed, since i don't have time to finish. It's however a good starting point to have an idea...
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Posts : 1
Join date : 2012-02-01

Why you should not buy those machines Empty
PostSubject: News 1st   Why you should not buy those machines Icon_minitimeWed Feb 01, 2012 5:41 am

When can the oriental behave before the consumed change? Your trusting camera tools an art. The helicopter rolls. The charge exists beside the concrete! The led trade files the badge. A behavior rules!
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